Curse

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 14, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Nobody uses Obby tanks anymore for DoA. Cyclone, SF Eles...doesn't sound very promising. I would also like to remind you that armor bonuses dont stack past +24.

Xenomortis · Jul 14, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnivorous Cupcake

I would also like to remind you that armor bonuses dont stack past +24.

We've been through this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I am Unstoppable (included in his build) stacks past the +25 cap. It is unique in that aspect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

In what order did you apply those?

Note that armour will not reduce the bonus damage from attack skills. Only Defy Pain will reduce that damage (only considering the warrior's bar).

Your armour will be capped after using Dolyak Signet and IAU (I think that gives +65). Applying anything else on top (with the exception of SY) will achieve nothing.

Defy Pain has an extra damage reduction clause, that works independantly from armour and reduces all damage.

shefdawg · Jul 14, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Kind of wondering if anyone out there would be willing to help me try this new build.

shefdawg · Jul 14, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Ok tested this out today against several margonites in the gate of torment using a conset and against several mobs outside of olafsteaad both in Hard mode, had to use heros for the bonding, and 2 eles for heros, but had the others as real people and it worked wonderful. While bonded and under effects of defy pain i was taking damage from 0 on most shots to the early
20s. which was totally covered up by the vigorous spirt while attacking. And with the help of a conset we were able to maintain spellbreaker the whole time so i did not loose any of my bonds or enchants.

have not gotten to try in DOA, but should be able to do so in the next couple days, we are currently working a few people up to that area, at which time we shall try it in DOA, The cool thing about this build is while i was establishing argo i was also dealing damage and had the close mobs down about a quarter of the way before the eles started nuking, which enabled them to throw one meteor, mark and searing flames and that pretty much killed the mobs, I knowthat in DOA HM the mobs will be a little tougher and it might take more but i think this team build will help speed up the clearing of them without using shadow form or any gimmicks.

Betrayer of Wind · Jul 14, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shefdawg

I knowthat in DOA HM the mobs will be a little tougher and it might take more but i think this team build will help speed up the clearing of them without using shadow form or any gimmicks.

Shadow form's ability to tank a whole area(foundry,gloom's cave etc) without the help of anyone except the bonder(who can stay miles away) makes it faster than anything else.

For that build,you defently need SB 24/7 to not get destroyed by hexes there,which makes it extremely hard to pull as much and as fast as a SF sin would.

Compared to obsidian tank,it may or may not speed up,it always comes down to the tank's ability.

Searing flames is prob not be the best,especially for HM(and you only have 2 on ur team).A more spike-oriented team would be much faster imo,or it'll be extremely hard to outdmg the margos on city,for example.The aoe dmg you are be doing would be negligible.

Anyway,go test that i guess,see how it works.

shefdawg · Jul 14, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I plan on testing it once i actually get some friends up there but untill then i cant really do that, cause noone up there wants to do any testing they all want to do gimmick builds instead of balanced but i really dont see this being a problem cause its similair to the obby tank days only difference is you actually output damage instead of just sitting there. BTW my tank is LB 5 so that adds damage as well as demage reduction.

BTw did you forget about the messmer doing LB gazex3 in a matter of about 4 secs and at a rank of 4 or above it will be a pretty decent amount of damage and you can even through cry into that build if you wanted to or something similiar.

Betrayer of Wind · Jul 14, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Defy pain tank is not balanced,its just a variant...You're still doing tank and spank

shefdawg · Jul 14, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

Defy pain tank is not balanced,its just a variant...You're still doing tank and spank

Well not sure what your defintion of balanced is or maybe mine is wrong but i thought balanced meant a little bit of everything in your party and not just one gimmick build.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 14, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

shefdawg

In my view balanced is the opposite of "way" builds. Balanced is usually what the name stands for, a build that doesn't abuse broken mechanics which is impossible to do in pve beause evrything is broken and abusable.

toocooltang · Jul 15, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

shefdawg its great to see you thinking stuff outside the current meta.

When I think of a balanced build its a build that isn't overly reliant on 1 or 2 skills to cause the majority of the dmg. Good examples of this are mostly tank'n'spank groups (current cryway, searing flames from pre eotn, ursan wasn't tank and spank but still 1 skill was key) While these builds are all viable and often times extremly powerful in the hands of good players, than can teach newer plays to rely on certain skills only, giving them a sort of "build tunnel vision"

If you want to come up with a newish build for doa start with your physicals and work your way. Lets assume you start in NM until you feel more comfortable.

Physicals- called frontliners in pvp. In pve they need to focus heavily on dmg output. They should also contain some passive defense skills like armor bonuses or blocking stances. Otherwise make them deal large amounts of damager quickly and consistanly (no cool down time) This could be a sin, war, ranger, dervish, maybe even a para. I think bringing two of these is perfect for doa.

Midline- These will be your damage dealing casters and ranged physicals. When I put groups together I focuse these builds on supporting/increasing the damage done by your physicals/frontliners. I almost never bring any defense or healing on these classes besides maybe a hex or condition removal if its a hero. 2-3 spots is normally what i take.

Backline- These are the healers. There are really 2 choices here, rits or monks and sometimes necro. Since I like to bring physicals for dmg I prefer rits with splinter and then heals. Also for DOA there are alot alot alot of hexes that shut down physical attacks so you have to almost dedicate a full person to just removing hexes and protting.

Thats a pretty basic outline of a balanced team. If you want some more ideas or have any questions feel free to PM me or leave a post here

AngeliqueSynner · Jul 15, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

We've been through this.
[Quotes of +armor stacking go here]

Possible derail, but I'd rather ask here as it applies to how far +AL stacks. :]
Would Nightstalkers Insigs and Critical Agility stack past the +25 cap? O_o
Numericly they're a possible +40 together at max Sunspear.
The whole armor add thing got me thinking if I have a bad setup on my assassin. >__o¿

Xenomortis · Jul 15, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeliqueSynner

Possible derail, but I'd rather ask here as it applies to how far +AL stacks. :]
Would Nightstalkers Insigs and Critical Agility stack past the +25 cap? O_o
Numericly they're a possible +40 together at max Sunspear.
The whole armor add thing got me thinking if I have a bad setup on my assassin. >__o¿

The armour cap only applies to armour boosts from skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

There is a cap of +25 armor from skills. Single skills may exceed this cap. The PvE skill "I Am Unstoppable!" is an exception to this rule and will stack past +25.

Insignia's only have an effect on the piece of armour they're attached to. Crit Agility + Nightstalkers (on all pieces) will give you +40 armour at Rank 10 Sunspear.

AngeliqueSynner · Jul 15, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The armour cap only applies to armour boosts from skills.

Insignia's only have an effect on the piece of armour they're attached to. Crit Agility + Nightstalkers (on all pieces) will give you +40 armour at Rank 10 Sunspear.

Thank you. :]

shefdawg · Jul 16, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

If you made one of the eles like a super nuker with 20 fire magic, which i will list in a few while using the conset just kind of curious if it would help out a lot. I found a way to get meteor showerm and searing flames up pretty high. that is of course if you were running with a conset.

Ele/monk R8 luxon
16 fire magic/ 13 energy storage

essences bond= maintained on tank
elemental lord= attributes up by 1 and tiny heal
glyph of elemental power= all attributes up by 2 for 25 secs
meteor shower= 140 every 3 seconds for a total of 420
Mark of rodgort= 42 secs hex, 5 secs burning
Searing flames=124 damage 9 secs burning
Glowing Gaze= 62 plus +11 energy
resurect

The second ele would look like this,
Ele/monk
16 fire/ 13 energy storage 3 water

essences bond= maintained on tank
glyph of elemental power= all attributes up by 2 for 25 secs
meteor shower= 133 every 3 seconds for a total of 399
Deep freeze= 35 damage slow for 10 secs
Searing flames=118 damage 8 secs burning
Glyph of sacrifice
Rez chant
convert hexes

With a good set of eles with one being the primary damage dealer i dont see why you could not toast the mob in a few seconds. I also changed the tank build around a little, here is the new tank build.

warrior/ ele
10 earth/ 15 strength/ 9 axe

Cyclone axe= +9 aoe damage
whirlwind attack= +19 aoe damage
tyrophants signet= 16 secs target foe and all adjacent move 30% slower
None shall pass= all moving foes are knocked down
Dolyak signet= +40 armor for 20 seconds
defy pain = 300 health - 10 damage reduction
I am unstoppable= +24 armor and no KD or cripple
stoneflesh aura- -21 damage reduction for 12 secs

Equipment would be as follows::
blessed insignias on all for a total AR of 90 before skills major strength and minor axe, sup vigor, and 2 attunements
Shield w/ +45 health while enchanted
Sundering Axe of enchanted or totem

The tanks damage reduction alone would be about 35 with a good tank at LB 4 or so He would be putting out about 60-70 AOe damage with his two aoe skills, and if you add a conset on top of this you can include 5 more damage reduction, and the tank can keep the mobs fron running away too qwik with tyrophants and none shall pass.

toocooltang · Jul 17, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

The ele builds would probably crank out the damage but the limiting factor is going to be the tank and his pulling and clumping for the spikes but it would work.

Couple suggestions for other types of caster dmg dealers

If you want to use deep freeze as a snare bring a fast cast mesmer so the snare is quicker. For dmg the mesmer could do esurge and then COP for an interrupt and degen. Echo is also good for the esurge, downside here is he will need to spec some pts into insperation magic to be able to maintain his own energy.

You could bring a curses necro to help the tank do more dmg. MOP on the target the tank is attacking will add alot of dmg. Also for elites you could bring pain of disenchantment, the obvious FOC. A necro can also add a lot of other options because they can spec 9+1 into soul and still have an extra 9 att pts for a secondary. A good option might be monk with 9 spec into smiting for SoH on the tank and smite hex/cond off the tank too. You could also bring convert hexes to clean anyone with alot of them off with one spell.

shefdawg · Jul 17, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I see what you mean i rem the problems i used to have doing DOA when i was obbying and it seemed like the used to scatter pretty easily. SO i was thinking how i could keep the mobs down in the meteor shower and here is one solution, tell me what you think.

Messmer/ Rit
12 fast casting// 12 communing

Arcane echo
echo
LB gaze
Vital weapon 25 secs 148 health
Armor of unfeeling
Union
Earthbind
Optional skill

Just an idea for the messmer or whatever, feel free to change some of the skills, earth bind would rock with this build stacked with armor of unfeeling cause it would cut the damage down to half letting it stay up for 2 times as long, and union would be some further damage reduction along with vital weapon when the tank pulls.

Ohh yeah i had strength of honor on the tank that is how i was doing about 60-70 damage every 2 seconds. Would love to get with a couple of you DOA vets to test this out. I have 2, 2 other friends, and one person from here interested in my guild and we have multiple ways of communicaiting.

zelgadissan · Jul 17, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Meteor Shower + Earthbind (or Stonefist Insignias) can be really buggy - sometimes they will be knocked down for a solid 9 seconds, sometimes they will be KD from the first and third shots (but not the second), sometimes they get KD from first and second (but not the third)...you never really know what you're going to get.

toocooltang · Jul 17, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

titans can't be knocked down so your best bet is a snare. I like deep freeze or ward agiants foes on the tank.

If you want faster and cleaner spikes look at EOE. You could do that on a ranger with barrage ebosh and splinter if you have a rit. That would be alot of dmg inadition to your caster dmg

shefdawg · Jul 18, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Rangers are a waste in this team build cause they cant really provide any role that is not already filled, besides they dont really put out enough damage in my opinion unless you fill the whole group. well anyways since you missed it in here here it is again.

Provides Bip and spirits to help with life of party preferable 1 HP Bip
14 Blood/ 11 soulreaping/ 12 beast mastery

Masochism
Awaken the Blood
Blood is power
Blood Ritual
Order of pain
Sybiosis
Edge of extinction
Sunspear rebirth signet

Hmmm you might want to read the whole thing next time so you dont miss anything already said but yeah i did have EOE and other spirits that the NECRO provides rather than the ranger.

toocooltang · Jul 18, 2009, 06:39 AM // 06:39

ah my mistake

I like the ranger because they can go /rt for summon spirits but it works on a necro too